Dancing Man Brewery given permission to convert Southampton's Wool House into brew house

Andover Advertiser: Stewart Cross, Aidan Lavin and Mandy Lacey- Cross celebrate their Dancing Man Brewery being granted permission to become a micro-brewery. Stewart Cross, Aidan Lavin and Mandy Lacey- Cross celebrate their Dancing Man Brewery being granted permission to become a micro-brewery.

IT IS one of Southampton’s most recognisable historic buildings.

Now the Wool House in Town Quay will be converted into a brew house and restaurant after city planners gave proposals the green light.

The application was put forward by the Dancing Man Brewery to convert the building, which was most recently an art house, into the city’s first brew house.

It will also house a tourist information centre – the first one since the previous one at the Civic Centre was closed by the city council in 2013. Once completed, the building will host a micro-brewery, a bar, and seating area on the ground floor, while the first floor will contain seating and a kitchen area.

The application revealed much of the fit-out will be kept away from the original stone walls, and the building’s original fabric will also remain on show.

The decision was made by Southampton City Council’s planning panel yesterday.

The building could reopen as early as August, and could create 30 new jobs.

Its co-owners said historical features will remain prominent, including some graffiti written by French prisoners when it served as a jail in 1711.

They plan to set up historical exhibitions with unique historical artefacts which will be rotated and updated regularly.

Co-owner Mandy Lacey-Cross insisted condensers will ensure moisture from the brewing process will not damage the brickwork and equipment will be contained inside the building to ensure it does not spread to neighbouring homes.

They will brew around six types of beer, plus one off special beers.

But as reported by the Daily Echo, the plans stirred up controversy last year and led to more than 240 people signing a petition to retain it as a community art centre.

There was also a protest outside the building as art lovers pleaded with council bosses to scrap plans to convert it.

Mrs Lacey-Cross, 49, said: “We are totally delighted and we really can’t wait to get the keys and get in there and start brewing.

“It’s great to have the building open again and we have endless possibilities with the chance for exhibitions, artists and musicians.

“We are a creative business in a beautiful building and we will mix that with good food and beer.”

Andover Advertiser:

Comments (59)

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9:47am Wed 23 Apr 14

Portswood Pete says...

Well done to all concerned. With this and the Butchers Hook at Bitterne Triangle, pubs in Southampton may be on the up at long last. Now if we can just get some decent pubs over in Sholing.......
Well done to all concerned. With this and the Butchers Hook at Bitterne Triangle, pubs in Southampton may be on the up at long last. Now if we can just get some decent pubs over in Sholing....... Portswood Pete
  • Score: 2

10:06am Wed 23 Apr 14

From the sidelines says...

I look forward to this opening. Dancing Man produces some excellent ales, and this sounds like a welcome change from the usual formulaic pub chains.
I look forward to this opening. Dancing Man produces some excellent ales, and this sounds like a welcome change from the usual formulaic pub chains. From the sidelines
  • Score: -1

10:09am Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

No surprise there. It was a politically motivated decision from the start with the planning application process being nothing more than a tick box exercise. Even city councillors were talking and tweeting about "when" the Wool House is a pub, even before an application was submitted.

How very sad that an important 700 year old city building is being sold out to a pub & limiting access to a few. Maybe selling the Bargate to a drive-through fast food restaurant will be next? It would follow the same morals as this mindless decision. The pub may currently say that the building will be open for anybody to view, but how long will this last with the public walking in just to view it without buying anything? Then there are those that don't go to pubs because they don't like them, or for religious reasons, or because they're too young etc. and the result is many are excluded from an important city building.

The Wool House should have remained as a building open for community use which maximises access & creates much needed community space. Anything from art/theatre group use, specialist workshop space for those with learning disabilities etc. & school groups to wedding venues. The list is endless. Being run as a charity or not for profit basis would mean it would not cost the council and would make it eligible for grants & funding to pay for any conversion & conservation works, just as Tudor House was with the millions of pounds of lottery money it received.

Coincidently, the council originally planned to close Tudor House after it's conversion & open it only for paying functions. A petition was organised by city residents & the council changed their decision. Now look at the poor building, opening hours reduced already and now the loss of the Wool House... In this case a Grade I Listed nationally significant building, should remain accessible to all city residents & visitors & not sold out to private profit driven commercial ventures.

But what more can you expect from a council that doesn't support culture in the city, reduces museum opening hours, still attempting to sell the city's art & now hands over an ancient building to be run as a pub. Cultural vandalism at it's very worst.
No surprise there. It was a politically motivated decision from the start with the planning application process being nothing more than a tick box exercise. Even city councillors were talking and tweeting about "when" the Wool House is a pub, even before an application was submitted. How very sad that an important 700 year old city building is being sold out to a pub & limiting access to a few. Maybe selling the Bargate to a drive-through fast food restaurant will be next? It would follow the same morals as this mindless decision. The pub may currently say that the building will be open for anybody to view, but how long will this last with the public walking in just to view it without buying anything? Then there are those that don't go to pubs because they don't like them, or for religious reasons, or because they're too young etc. and the result is many are excluded from an important city building. The Wool House should have remained as a building open for community use which maximises access & creates much needed community space. Anything from art/theatre group use, specialist workshop space for those with learning disabilities etc. & school groups to wedding venues. The list is endless. Being run as a charity or not for profit basis would mean it would not cost the council and would make it eligible for grants & funding to pay for any conversion & conservation works, just as Tudor House was with the millions of pounds of lottery money it received. Coincidently, the council originally planned to close Tudor House after it's conversion & open it only for paying functions. A petition was organised by city residents & the council changed their decision. Now look at the poor building, opening hours reduced already and now the loss of the Wool House... In this case a Grade I Listed nationally significant building, should remain accessible to all city residents & visitors & not sold out to private profit driven commercial ventures. But what more can you expect from a council that doesn't support culture in the city, reduces museum opening hours, still attempting to sell the city's art & now hands over an ancient building to be run as a pub. Cultural vandalism at it's very worst. sotonboy84
  • Score: 22

10:32am Wed 23 Apr 14

ryan_gazzan@hotmail.com says...

Should have been taken by Wetherspoon's as some of their restorations of historical buildings have been stunningly done.
Should have been taken by Wetherspoon's as some of their restorations of historical buildings have been stunningly done. ryan_gazzan@hotmail.com
  • Score: -32

10:33am Wed 23 Apr 14

philiprhampton says...

Great stuff couldn't be in better hands, love the Platform.
Great stuff couldn't be in better hands, love the Platform. philiprhampton
  • Score: 3

10:40am Wed 23 Apr 14

Lone Ranger. says...

Its quite interesting to see that some posters feel that the decision to sell or lease out this grade1 listed building was on decided just a few months ago.
.
In actual fact due to cash shortfalls the Council back in 2008 put forward the initial idea to sell it off.
.
In April 2011 it was decided by the then Tory council that it should be sold/leased and would consider it being a coffee shop or pub as the maritime exhibits had been moved to the sea museum ..... ........ .
.
Cultural vandalism at it's very worst !!
Its quite interesting to see that some posters feel that the decision to sell or lease out this grade1 listed building was on decided just a few months ago. . In actual fact due to cash shortfalls the Council back in 2008 put forward the initial idea to sell it off. . In April 2011 it was decided by the then Tory council that it should be sold/leased and would consider it being a coffee shop or pub as the maritime exhibits had been moved to the sea museum ..... ........ . . Cultural vandalism at it's very worst !! Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -37

10:56am Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

There are people complaining on here every day that Southampton has no culture, nothing to attract tourists, nothing for residents to do other than shop and go to the pub etc. so is it any wonder when applications like this are put through?

A group was created on Facebook, an open group for those in support of the Wool House remaining a community space could discuss their ideas. The group was an open group to promote inclusivity which a community space is about and not exclusivity that a pub creates. Individuals aired their thoughts and objections not personally against the brewery, but against a proven successful community space being lost.

However, individuals were personally attacked and insulted by those from the brewery in this group, just because they objected to the planning application. The architect of the project insulted one members website by saying the postacrds of her artwork she sells "appear to depict snot and boggies" and he also said that most objections "will be ignored as ill-informed rants".

This is the people who propose to convert and run a city building. Take a look at all comments from the planning website yourselves, they're constructive and the beliefs of the individuals and did not deserve the attacks and dirty games from the brewery. For any planning application that is submitted, the public have the right to support or object to it and this is the right that individuals exercised, in support or against.
There are people complaining on here every day that Southampton has no culture, nothing to attract tourists, nothing for residents to do other than shop and go to the pub etc. so is it any wonder when applications like this are put through? A group was created on Facebook, an open group for those in support of the Wool House remaining a community space could discuss their ideas. The group was an open group to promote inclusivity which a community space is about and not exclusivity that a pub creates. Individuals aired their thoughts and objections not personally against the brewery, but against a proven successful community space being lost. However, individuals were personally attacked and insulted by those from the brewery in this group, just because they objected to the planning application. The architect of the project insulted one members website by saying the postacrds of her artwork she sells "appear to depict snot and boggies" and he also said that most objections "will be ignored as ill-informed rants". This is the people who propose to convert and run a city building. Take a look at all comments from the planning website yourselves, they're constructive and the beliefs of the individuals and did not deserve the attacks and dirty games from the brewery. For any planning application that is submitted, the public have the right to support or object to it and this is the right that individuals exercised, in support or against. sotonboy84
  • Score: 35

11:50am Wed 23 Apr 14

elvisimo says...

got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....
got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity..... elvisimo
  • Score: -25

11:55am Wed 23 Apr 14

theshao says...

Glad to see the vocal and uncompromising minority haven't managed to derail a fantastic plan to restore and reopen a wonderful historical commercial building.
Glad to see the vocal and uncompromising minority haven't managed to derail a fantastic plan to restore and reopen a wonderful historical commercial building. theshao
  • Score: 7

11:57am Wed 23 Apr 14

Lone Ranger. says...

elvisimo wrote:
got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....
Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless.
.
Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......
[quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....[/p][/quote]Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless. . Even cheat the system to give themselves more ...... Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -23

12:07pm Wed 23 Apr 14

JimmyB2 says...

I have to say, the arts group seemed more closed and cliquey than any pub I've frequented, I'll feel far more at home once it's a brewery/ale house open to all regardless of whether they're interested in art. I'll also be glad to see it get the sizable commercial investment it needs and to be returned to it's rightful role as a profitable, productive building.
Here's to hoping it's massively successful and thousands of people who might never have seen the historic building get to enjoy it.
I have to say, the arts group seemed more closed and cliquey than any pub I've frequented, I'll feel far more at home once it's a brewery/ale house open to all regardless of whether they're interested in art. I'll also be glad to see it get the sizable commercial investment it needs and to be returned to it's rightful role as a profitable, productive building. Here's to hoping it's massively successful and thousands of people who might never have seen the historic building get to enjoy it. JimmyB2
  • Score: -2

12:07pm Wed 23 Apr 14

elvisimo says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....
Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless.
.
Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......
its quite funny really especially considering the responses on this proposal previously - unanimously positive. Ho hum
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....[/p][/quote]Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless. . Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......[/p][/quote]its quite funny really especially considering the responses on this proposal previously - unanimously positive. Ho hum elvisimo
  • Score: -11

12:08pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....
Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless.
.
Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......
Speaking from experience Drone Ranger?
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....[/p][/quote]Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless. . Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......[/p][/quote]Speaking from experience Drone Ranger? sotonboy84
  • Score: 21

12:09pm Wed 23 Apr 14

apn102 says...

I think this is all rather sad the negativity that has built up on both sides. I support the platform tavern in what they are doing and do not think it will limit it to a few and that it probably has more support than the elemental art group. If there have been negative comments from those involved in the brewery it is very sad indeed, but actually many of those involved in the elemental arts projects have been equally bad towards the platform. It's a real shame the two could not have worked together, which I know the platform would have been happy to do at the start but probably not now.
I think the whole campaign against the platform will have a real negative impact on artists and community groups in southampton as I am sure the council and other owners of vacant buildings will think twice about letting people use their spaces for pop-up venues for no or little rent.
The fact is the platform have put in a bid to take over the wool house and no other viable option was put on the table. Did the group who wanted to "save the wool house" come up with a plan of where they would get the money from to pay full rent, business rates and repair the building? I am fairly sure they didn't.
I think this is all rather sad the negativity that has built up on both sides. I support the platform tavern in what they are doing and do not think it will limit it to a few and that it probably has more support than the elemental art group. If there have been negative comments from those involved in the brewery it is very sad indeed, but actually many of those involved in the elemental arts projects have been equally bad towards the platform. It's a real shame the two could not have worked together, which I know the platform would have been happy to do at the start but probably not now. I think the whole campaign against the platform will have a real negative impact on artists and community groups in southampton as I am sure the council and other owners of vacant buildings will think twice about letting people use their spaces for pop-up venues for no or little rent. The fact is the platform have put in a bid to take over the wool house and no other viable option was put on the table. Did the group who wanted to "save the wool house" come up with a plan of where they would get the money from to pay full rent, business rates and repair the building? I am fairly sure they didn't. apn102
  • Score: 1

12:21pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

apn102 wrote:
I think this is all rather sad the negativity that has built up on both sides. I support the platform tavern in what they are doing and do not think it will limit it to a few and that it probably has more support than the elemental art group. If there have been negative comments from those involved in the brewery it is very sad indeed, but actually many of those involved in the elemental arts projects have been equally bad towards the platform. It's a real shame the two could not have worked together, which I know the platform would have been happy to do at the start but probably not now.
I think the whole campaign against the platform will have a real negative impact on artists and community groups in southampton as I am sure the council and other owners of vacant buildings will think twice about letting people use their spaces for pop-up venues for no or little rent.
The fact is the platform have put in a bid to take over the wool house and no other viable option was put on the table. Did the group who wanted to "save the wool house" come up with a plan of where they would get the money from to pay full rent, business rates and repair the building? I am fairly sure they didn't.
I can't speak for the arts group because I have had no involvement with it. My views are my personal views and it's very sad that the city as a whole lose a hugely important building in favour of a pub. It's not about compromise and who will work with who but keeping the space available to the largest possible audience, a community space is more inclusive than a profit driven pub.

There has been no campaign against the brewery and as far as I'm aware Elements Arts who were using the Wool House previously have not voiced their opinions at all. The opinions on both the Facebook group and the DE are collective objections from many different city residents of different backgrounds, some involved in art/community projects and some not. The point is they are all individual opinions and objections and have been lumped as one large "arts group objective" by the brewery, council and DE. The brewery, council and DE

The only campaign that was evident to me was from the brewery in not only their insults and attacks towards individual objections but their campaign to ask people to support the application, if it conatined any opinions or not, just so the level of supports could outweigh any objections. The brewery, council and DE were all in support of the pub application even before it was submitted so naturally any objectors to this are going to be made to look bad. If this isn't an underhand campaign, then I don't know what is.
[quote][p][bold]apn102[/bold] wrote: I think this is all rather sad the negativity that has built up on both sides. I support the platform tavern in what they are doing and do not think it will limit it to a few and that it probably has more support than the elemental art group. If there have been negative comments from those involved in the brewery it is very sad indeed, but actually many of those involved in the elemental arts projects have been equally bad towards the platform. It's a real shame the two could not have worked together, which I know the platform would have been happy to do at the start but probably not now. I think the whole campaign against the platform will have a real negative impact on artists and community groups in southampton as I am sure the council and other owners of vacant buildings will think twice about letting people use their spaces for pop-up venues for no or little rent. The fact is the platform have put in a bid to take over the wool house and no other viable option was put on the table. Did the group who wanted to "save the wool house" come up with a plan of where they would get the money from to pay full rent, business rates and repair the building? I am fairly sure they didn't.[/p][/quote]I can't speak for the arts group because I have had no involvement with it. My views are my personal views and it's very sad that the city as a whole lose a hugely important building in favour of a pub. It's not about compromise and who will work with who but keeping the space available to the largest possible audience, a community space is more inclusive than a profit driven pub. There has been no campaign against the brewery and as far as I'm aware Elements Arts who were using the Wool House previously have not voiced their opinions at all. The opinions on both the Facebook group and the DE are collective objections from many different city residents of different backgrounds, some involved in art/community projects and some not. The point is they are all individual opinions and objections and have been lumped as one large "arts group objective" by the brewery, council and DE. The brewery, council and DE The only campaign that was evident to me was from the brewery in not only their insults and attacks towards individual objections but their campaign to ask people to support the application, if it conatined any opinions or not, just so the level of supports could outweigh any objections. The brewery, council and DE were all in support of the pub application even before it was submitted so naturally any objectors to this are going to be made to look bad. If this isn't an underhand campaign, then I don't know what is. sotonboy84
  • Score: 25

12:35pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Zootopian says...

The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others.

If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants.

No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.
The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others. If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants. No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council. Zootopian
  • Score: -7

12:36pm Wed 23 Apr 14

loosehead says...

Under the Tory council plans were put forward over the wine vaults but a petition was put forward & it never happened.
They also looked into turning this into a pub/restaurant (wool house) I suggested a tourist information bureau should be included in my post or at town quay.
The building itself cannot be touched as it's a grade1 listed building. Under Tory plans this would be leased out but belong to the city so bringing in an income & paying for any structural repairs whilst keeping this historical building.
To me that's good housekeeping & if Labour have carried on with this good work maybe Labour are finally learning how to run the city from the tories but I doubt that.
Under the Tory council plans were put forward over the wine vaults but a petition was put forward & it never happened. They also looked into turning this into a pub/restaurant (wool house) I suggested a tourist information bureau should be included in my post or at town quay. The building itself cannot be touched as it's a grade1 listed building. Under Tory plans this would be leased out but belong to the city so bringing in an income & paying for any structural repairs whilst keeping this historical building. To me that's good housekeeping & if Labour have carried on with this good work maybe Labour are finally learning how to run the city from the tories but I doubt that. loosehead
  • Score: -4

12:47pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

Zootopian wrote:
The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others.

If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants.

No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.
You're missing the point.

As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications.

Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible.

On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much.

My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.
[quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others. If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants. No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications. Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible. On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much. My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were. sotonboy84
  • Score: 26

12:55pm Wed 23 Apr 14

SteveinTotton says...

Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building.

The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc.

There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer.
Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building. The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc. There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer. SteveinTotton
  • Score: -7

1:12pm Wed 23 Apr 14

03alpe01 says...

Will be nice to have a Tourist Information Centre in the City again!
Will be nice to have a Tourist Information Centre in the City again! 03alpe01
  • Score: 2

1:27pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Not Southy says...

Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink!
Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea! Not Southy
  • Score: -16

1:30pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

SteveinTotton wrote:
Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building.

The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc.

There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer.
I'm not getting into arguments with people as the point in my posts are that there are two sides to every story and those objecting to the city losing the building have all been lumped together as one mass "art objection". My objections are my own, just as the others belong to other individuals, I am not part of any art group but I object to the city losing a proven successful community space, a nationally significant building and it being handed over to a pub. A pub is a business and is naturally driven by profits but due to how special and important the Wool House is, it should have been used in some community capacity so it is open to the widest possible audience.

I assume you're from the brewery too as you've reiterated what seems to be a sore point to the brewery – calling it a pub. You may not like it called a pub as you want to stand out from all the others in the city but the brewery intend to sell alcohol, some of which they brew themselves and sell food to go along with it. This in the broadest sense of the term, is a pub. All pubs in the city operate in the same way.

I originally had full respect for the brewery's concept and although I felt all along that the choice of building was wrong, I exercised my right to objection to the council's decision to allow a commercial venture in the building and not an objection to the brewery itself. But, after seeing the campaign of hate and insults from the brewery, it's supporters and even Ian Knight the architect of the design, it's left me with the opinion that they're highly unprofessional, underhand and were never open to any form of compromise. They took all objections personally and attacked the individual for exercising their right. Because of this behaviour, I personally wouldn't want any dealings with the pub in any shape or form nor do I have any respect or support for them if this is how they operate.

For a business that is has said they're inclusive and support the local community and culture etc. this is a very funny way of showing it.

The building has not been costing the taxpayer and will not be generating any revenue for the city for the forseeable future. Buildings of this importance and value are eligible for grants to help towards restoration and conservation so it would still not cost the council. The council are supposed to represent the people of the city and administer its assets for the benefit of its residents.

I hope this makes things a little clearer to you. I originally had respect for the brewery but objected to the council denying the building to the community. My lack of respect and support for the brewery's business is a result of their own underhand behaviour.
[quote][p][bold]SteveinTotton[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building. The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc. There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer.[/p][/quote]I'm not getting into arguments with people as the point in my posts are that there are two sides to every story and those objecting to the city losing the building have all been lumped together as one mass "art objection". My objections are my own, just as the others belong to other individuals, I am not part of any art group but I object to the city losing a proven successful community space, a nationally significant building and it being handed over to a pub. A pub is a business and is naturally driven by profits but due to how special and important the Wool House is, it should have been used in some community capacity so it is open to the widest possible audience. I assume you're from the brewery too as you've reiterated what seems to be a sore point to the brewery – calling it a pub. You may not like it called a pub as you want to stand out from all the others in the city but the brewery intend to sell alcohol, some of which they brew themselves and sell food to go along with it. This in the broadest sense of the term, is a pub. All pubs in the city operate in the same way. I originally had full respect for the brewery's concept and although I felt all along that the choice of building was wrong, I exercised my right to objection to the council's decision to allow a commercial venture in the building and not an objection to the brewery itself. But, after seeing the campaign of hate and insults from the brewery, it's supporters and even Ian Knight the architect of the design, it's left me with the opinion that they're highly unprofessional, underhand and were never open to any form of compromise. They took all objections personally and attacked the individual for exercising their right. Because of this behaviour, I personally wouldn't want any dealings with the pub in any shape or form nor do I have any respect or support for them if this is how they operate. For a business that is has said they're inclusive and support the local community and culture etc. this is a very funny way of showing it. The building has not been costing the taxpayer and will not be generating any revenue for the city for the forseeable future. Buildings of this importance and value are eligible for grants to help towards restoration and conservation so it would still not cost the council. The council are supposed to represent the people of the city and administer its assets for the benefit of its residents. I hope this makes things a little clearer to you. I originally had respect for the brewery but objected to the council denying the building to the community. My lack of respect and support for the brewery's business is a result of their own underhand behaviour. sotonboy84
  • Score: 21

1:42pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

Not Southy wrote:
Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink!
Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts.

Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it.

Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else.
[quote][p][bold]Not Southy[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea![/p][/quote]I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts. Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it. Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else. sotonboy84
  • Score: 24

1:54pm Wed 23 Apr 14

ToastyTea says...

Nobody would have gone their apart from the odd few arty people if it had gone down that route making it a waste of a good interesting building, now it will be open for all and people who wouldn't have otherwise gone there will now be able to see it.
Will be great to have a brewery/ pub with a bit of character.
Nobody would have gone their apart from the odd few arty people if it had gone down that route making it a waste of a good interesting building, now it will be open for all and people who wouldn't have otherwise gone there will now be able to see it. Will be great to have a brewery/ pub with a bit of character. ToastyTea
  • Score: -2

2:01pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Huey says...

Great idea, well done to those involved. Let's be positive about something for a change!
Great idea, well done to those involved. Let's be positive about something for a change! Huey
  • Score: 3

2:07pm Wed 23 Apr 14

JimmyB2 says...

It's always been a commercial building, that's what it was build for. You don't make something so huge, so expensive to maintain, so bulky, without a commercial venture backing it. Yes, it spent a few decades of the last few centuries as a free to access building, which is, incidentally, what it will be when re-opened. You don't call a museum a shop just because it sells pencils in the foyer; your black-and-white distinction between pub and public property doesn't make any practical sense sotonboy - as pointed out very well above the chances are *less* people will feel excluded from the building in it's new form than did either when it was the maritime museum or when it was run by the arts group.
You're also epitomizing hypocrisy by complaining that all the objectors are being lumped together as the "arts group", then claiming that anyone who thinks it would be nice to have a pub in the wool house must be being somehow coerced by the brewery. I find that offensive and I wish you'd stop doing it; much like you I've formed my own opinions on the matter.
It's always been a commercial building, that's what it was build for. You don't make something so huge, so expensive to maintain, so bulky, without a commercial venture backing it. Yes, it spent a few decades of the last few centuries as a free to access building, which is, incidentally, what it will be when re-opened. You don't call a museum a shop just because it sells pencils in the foyer; your black-and-white distinction between pub and public property doesn't make any practical sense sotonboy - as pointed out very well above the chances are *less* people will feel excluded from the building in it's new form than did either when it was the maritime museum or when it was run by the arts group. You're also epitomizing hypocrisy by complaining that all the objectors are being lumped together as the "arts group", then claiming that anyone who thinks it would be nice to have a pub in the wool house must be being somehow coerced by the brewery. I find that offensive and I wish you'd stop doing it; much like you I've formed my own opinions on the matter. JimmyB2
  • Score: -12

2:29pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Zootopian says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others.

If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants.

No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.
You're missing the point.

As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications.

Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible.

On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much.

My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.
It seems to be you that has missed my point - I made no reference to your posts whatsoever.

Elements Arts made no effort to try and take over the Wool House. Their members were VERY vocal on here bemoaning Dancing Man Brewery's plans.

Local residents may well have stood outside and said they wanted the arts place to stay, but they didn't do anything to make it happen, did they?

If they lodged objections (and 35 were lodged, out of a total of 99 comments, the majority if which supported the application according to https://planningpubl
icaccess.southampton
.gov.uk/online-appli
cations/applicationD
etails.do?activeTab=
neighbourComments&ke
yVal=MZUQEVOZ43000) they would have had as much weight as anyone else's opinions. They are just opinions, however.

The Platform Tavern guys made the effort and have got their reward. I've seen no moaning from them about the things they've had said about them - in fact the only thing I can find is a letter from them to the DE saying how they want to be inclusive and actually put on a number of cultural events in the Platform and intend to do so at the Wool House.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others. If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants. No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications. Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible. On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much. My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.[/p][/quote]It seems to be you that has missed my point - I made no reference to your posts whatsoever. Elements Arts made no effort to try and take over the Wool House. Their members were VERY vocal on here bemoaning Dancing Man Brewery's plans. Local residents may well have stood outside and said they wanted the arts place to stay, but they didn't do anything to make it happen, did they? If they lodged objections (and 35 were lodged, out of a total of 99 comments, the majority if which supported the application according to https://planningpubl icaccess.southampton .gov.uk/online-appli cations/applicationD etails.do?activeTab= neighbourComments&ke yVal=MZUQEVOZ43000) they would have had as much weight as anyone else's opinions. They are just opinions, however. The Platform Tavern guys made the effort and have got their reward. I've seen no moaning from them about the things they've had said about them - in fact the only thing I can find is a letter from them to the DE saying how they want to be inclusive and actually put on a number of cultural events in the Platform and intend to do so at the Wool House. Zootopian
  • Score: -7

2:31pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
elvisimo wrote:
got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....
Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless.
.
Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......
Speaking from experience Drone Ranger?
I hardly think that i would give myself "thumbs down" now would I.
.
I just leave to those with the schoolboy mentality ........ such as yourself
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]elvisimo[/bold] wrote: got to love the thumbs up thumbs down vandals. Insecurity.....[/p][/quote]Spot on ........ fancy giving your own posts a thumbs up ..... priceless. . Even cheat the system to give themselves more ......[/p][/quote]Speaking from experience Drone Ranger?[/p][/quote]I hardly think that i would give myself "thumbs down" now would I. . I just leave to those with the schoolboy mentality ........ such as yourself Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -19

2:32pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Zootopian says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Not Southy wrote:
Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink!
Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts.

Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it.

Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else.
So people who disagree with you are ignorant and uneducated?

Suddenly, your thoughts (and seeming inability to see the other side of the argument) on having a brewery rather than an arts space seem nothing more than thinly veiled snobbery.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not Southy[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea![/p][/quote]I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts. Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it. Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else.[/p][/quote]So people who disagree with you are ignorant and uneducated? Suddenly, your thoughts (and seeming inability to see the other side of the argument) on having a brewery rather than an arts space seem nothing more than thinly veiled snobbery. Zootopian
  • Score: -15

2:34pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Lone Ranger. says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Not Southy wrote:
Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink!
Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts.

Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it.

Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else.
Pot kettle black comes to mind regarding insults schoolboy84
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not Southy[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea![/p][/quote]I need to shut up? I speak on behalf of myself, you may have worked this out if you had the intelligence to read my previous posts. Insults and attacks from the brewery themselves and now also from those that claim to drink tea in it. Can't say I'm at all surprised. Insults in response to constructive comments and conversation are just a sign of the ignorant and uneducated who don't have the capacity to do anything else.[/p][/quote]Pot kettle black comes to mind regarding insults schoolboy84 Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -16

2:35pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

JimmyB2 wrote:
It's always been a commercial building, that's what it was build for. You don't make something so huge, so expensive to maintain, so bulky, without a commercial venture backing it. Yes, it spent a few decades of the last few centuries as a free to access building, which is, incidentally, what it will be when re-opened. You don't call a museum a shop just because it sells pencils in the foyer; your black-and-white distinction between pub and public property doesn't make any practical sense sotonboy - as pointed out very well above the chances are *less* people will feel excluded from the building in it's new form than did either when it was the maritime museum or when it was run by the arts group.
You're also epitomizing hypocrisy by complaining that all the objectors are being lumped together as the "arts group", then claiming that anyone who thinks it would be nice to have a pub in the wool house must be being somehow coerced by the brewery. I find that offensive and I wish you'd stop doing it; much like you I've formed my own opinions on the matter.
Just to clarify, I've not been hypocritical at all. There are a couple of people commenting on here from the brewery, I've not claimed averybody in support of the pub is from the brewery.

Aside though I must say your justification of always being a commercial building is laughable. The city walls are the same age & older so are these still suitable for defending the city from attack? I rest my case.

My comments are constructive and inoffensive but the number of thumbs downs and responses have touched a nerve somewhere so I'll let the brewery and it's supporters talk amongst yourselves as constructive conversation is impossible here.
[quote][p][bold]JimmyB2[/bold] wrote: It's always been a commercial building, that's what it was build for. You don't make something so huge, so expensive to maintain, so bulky, without a commercial venture backing it. Yes, it spent a few decades of the last few centuries as a free to access building, which is, incidentally, what it will be when re-opened. You don't call a museum a shop just because it sells pencils in the foyer; your black-and-white distinction between pub and public property doesn't make any practical sense sotonboy - as pointed out very well above the chances are *less* people will feel excluded from the building in it's new form than did either when it was the maritime museum or when it was run by the arts group. You're also epitomizing hypocrisy by complaining that all the objectors are being lumped together as the "arts group", then claiming that anyone who thinks it would be nice to have a pub in the wool house must be being somehow coerced by the brewery. I find that offensive and I wish you'd stop doing it; much like you I've formed my own opinions on the matter.[/p][/quote]Just to clarify, I've not been hypocritical at all. There are a couple of people commenting on here from the brewery, I've not claimed averybody in support of the pub is from the brewery. Aside though I must say your justification of always being a commercial building is laughable. The city walls are the same age & older so are these still suitable for defending the city from attack? I rest my case. My comments are constructive and inoffensive but the number of thumbs downs and responses have touched a nerve somewhere so I'll let the brewery and it's supporters talk amongst yourselves as constructive conversation is impossible here. sotonboy84
  • Score: 20

2:50pm Wed 23 Apr 14

Zexagon says...

I think we could do with a charity shop down that end of town
I think we could do with a charity shop down that end of town Zexagon
  • Score: 8

3:30pm Wed 23 Apr 14

jasonsays says...

The Wool House has had a varied history to date and will only live on for future generations to enjoy if people take custody of buildings like this. i wish the team that have already made such a success of platform tavern the greatest of success. All those intent on thinking this venture excludes visitors to this historic building, i urge to look at the meaning of "public" house.

The Wool House plaque
The Wool House was built in the late 14th century to store wool for export to Italy. In the early 19th century it was used as a prison for Napoleonic French prisoners of war. The building was restored by Southampton City Corporation and adapted to house Southampton Maritime Museum, which opened in June 1966 and moved to SeaCity Museum in January 2012. It is a Grade I listed building.

A plaque on the wall of The Wool House records its history:

This building was erected in the 14th century for the storage of wool before export to the continent in the galleys and carracks of Venice and Genoa. The wool trade was the basis of Southampton's prosperity in the middle ages. During the Napoleonic wars The Wool House was used to accommodate French prisoners of war, some of whose names may be seen carved on the beams of the roof. This building was restored by the city corporation and opened as a Maritime Museum in June 1966.

During the early part of the 20th century, the premises were occupied by The Moonbeam Engineering Company Limited who built motor launches and later expanded to include the sale of wrought iron propellers and marine engines for export around the world. Edwin Moon used a corner of the workshop to realise his dream of constructing and flying an aircraft of his own design which he flew from land at North Stoneham in 1910, on fields which subsequently became Southampton International Airport.

The Maritime Museum, housed here from 1966 to 2012, documented the maritime heritage of Southampton and the Solent area, its history as a base for ocean liners and in particular its connections to RMS Titanic. Its mission statement was: "To collect, preserve, display and interpret artefacts and information to reflect the widest range of history of the city and its people; to promote enjoyment, awareness of the engagement with Southampton's heritage, via the presentation of the life of the city and its people."

In June 2013, with permission from Southampton City Council, The Wool House was opened up by element arts, a pop-up arts organisation, who use the space as a gallery and community arts venue featuring exhibitions and live events - music, dance, poetry, theatre, plus workshops for all ages. Element arts have The Wool House for a short time on a rolling month by month basis. and on it goes into the future.
The Wool House has had a varied history to date and will only live on for future generations to enjoy if people take custody of buildings like this. i wish the team that have already made such a success of platform tavern the greatest of success. All those intent on thinking this venture excludes visitors to this historic building, i urge to look at the meaning of "public" house. The Wool House plaque The Wool House was built in the late 14th century to store wool for export to Italy. In the early 19th century it was used as a prison for Napoleonic French prisoners of war. The building was restored by Southampton City Corporation and adapted to house Southampton Maritime Museum, which opened in June 1966 and moved to SeaCity Museum in January 2012.[1] It is a Grade I listed building.[2] A plaque on the wall of The Wool House records its history: This building was erected in the 14th century for the storage of wool before export to the continent in the galleys and carracks of Venice and Genoa. The wool trade was the basis of Southampton's prosperity in the middle ages. During the Napoleonic wars The Wool House was used to accommodate French prisoners of war, some of whose names may be seen carved on the beams of the roof. This building was restored by the city corporation and opened as a Maritime Museum in June 1966. During the early part of the 20th century, the premises were occupied by The Moonbeam Engineering Company Limited who built motor launches and later expanded to include the sale of wrought iron propellers and marine engines for export around the world. Edwin Moon used a corner of the workshop to realise his dream of constructing and flying an aircraft of his own design which he flew from land at North Stoneham in 1910, on fields which subsequently became Southampton International Airport.[3] The Maritime Museum, housed here from 1966 to 2012, documented the maritime heritage of Southampton and the Solent area, its history as a base for ocean liners and in particular its connections to RMS Titanic. Its mission statement was: "To collect, preserve, display and interpret artefacts and information to reflect the widest range of history of the city and its people; to promote enjoyment, awareness of the engagement with Southampton's heritage, via the presentation of the life of the city and its people."[4] In June 2013, with permission from Southampton City Council, The Wool House was opened up by element arts, a pop-up arts organisation, who use the space as a gallery and community arts venue featuring exhibitions and live events - music, dance, poetry, theatre, plus workshops for all ages. Element arts have The Wool House for a short time on a rolling month by month basis. and on it goes into the future. jasonsays
  • Score: 2

3:34pm Wed 23 Apr 14

ToastyTea says...

It's funny that most people agree that the brewery / pub will be good for the building both in the comments and in the vote, yet they are being down voted LOL
It's funny that most people agree that the brewery / pub will be good for the building both in the comments and in the vote, yet they are being down voted LOL ToastyTea
  • Score: 2

3:56pm Wed 23 Apr 14

lowe esteem says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
There are people complaining on here every day that Southampton has no culture, nothing to attract tourists, nothing for residents to do other than shop and go to the pub etc. so is it any wonder when applications like this are put through?

A group was created on Facebook, an open group for those in support of the Wool House remaining a community space could discuss their ideas. The group was an open group to promote inclusivity which a community space is about and not exclusivity that a pub creates. Individuals aired their thoughts and objections not personally against the brewery, but against a proven successful community space being lost.

However, individuals were personally attacked and insulted by those from the brewery in this group, just because they objected to the planning application. The architect of the project insulted one members website by saying the postacrds of her artwork she sells "appear to depict snot and boggies" and he also said that most objections "will be ignored as ill-informed rants".

This is the people who propose to convert and run a city building. Take a look at all comments from the planning website yourselves, they're constructive and the beliefs of the individuals and did not deserve the attacks and dirty games from the brewery. For any planning application that is submitted, the public have the right to support or object to it and this is the right that individuals exercised, in support or against.
What on earth is so wrong with this highly original venture?
A 'micro-brewery' is probably what the monks had in mind anyway.
This looks so accessible for all, weddings, bar-mitzvahs etc.
I can't wait to visit, about time there was something 'new' worth visiting in this city, whilst retaining the fabric and spirit of the original building. Hopefully, this will give the Tourist Information a leg up too. Get some decent Southampton related merchandise in this time, though.
Breath of fresh air, I ask again, what's so wrong? Good Luck Dancing Man.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: There are people complaining on here every day that Southampton has no culture, nothing to attract tourists, nothing for residents to do other than shop and go to the pub etc. so is it any wonder when applications like this are put through? A group was created on Facebook, an open group for those in support of the Wool House remaining a community space could discuss their ideas. The group was an open group to promote inclusivity which a community space is about and not exclusivity that a pub creates. Individuals aired their thoughts and objections not personally against the brewery, but against a proven successful community space being lost. However, individuals were personally attacked and insulted by those from the brewery in this group, just because they objected to the planning application. The architect of the project insulted one members website by saying the postacrds of her artwork she sells "appear to depict snot and boggies" and he also said that most objections "will be ignored as ill-informed rants". This is the people who propose to convert and run a city building. Take a look at all comments from the planning website yourselves, they're constructive and the beliefs of the individuals and did not deserve the attacks and dirty games from the brewery. For any planning application that is submitted, the public have the right to support or object to it and this is the right that individuals exercised, in support or against.[/p][/quote]What on earth is so wrong with this highly original venture? A 'micro-brewery' is probably what the monks had in mind anyway. This looks so accessible for all, weddings, bar-mitzvahs etc. I can't wait to visit, about time there was something 'new' worth visiting in this city, whilst retaining the fabric and spirit of the original building. Hopefully, this will give the Tourist Information a leg up too. Get some decent Southampton related merchandise in this time, though. Breath of fresh air, I ask again, what's so wrong? Good Luck Dancing Man. lowe esteem
  • Score: -3

4:23pm Wed 23 Apr 14

SteveinTotton says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
SteveinTotton wrote: Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building. The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc. There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer.
I'm not getting into arguments with people as the point in my posts are that there are two sides to every story and those objecting to the city losing the building have all been lumped together as one mass "art objection". My objections are my own, just as the others belong to other individuals, I am not part of any art group but I object to the city losing a proven successful community space, a nationally significant building and it being handed over to a pub. A pub is a business and is naturally driven by profits but due to how special and important the Wool House is, it should have been used in some community capacity so it is open to the widest possible audience. I assume you're from the brewery too as you've reiterated what seems to be a sore point to the brewery – calling it a pub. You may not like it called a pub as you want to stand out from all the others in the city but the brewery intend to sell alcohol, some of which they brew themselves and sell food to go along with it. This in the broadest sense of the term, is a pub. All pubs in the city operate in the same way. I originally had full respect for the brewery's concept and although I felt all along that the choice of building was wrong, I exercised my right to objection to the council's decision to allow a commercial venture in the building and not an objection to the brewery itself. But, after seeing the campaign of hate and insults from the brewery, it's supporters and even Ian Knight the architect of the design, it's left me with the opinion that they're highly unprofessional, underhand and were never open to any form of compromise. They took all objections personally and attacked the individual for exercising their right. Because of this behaviour, I personally wouldn't want any dealings with the pub in any shape or form nor do I have any respect or support for them if this is how they operate. For a business that is has said they're inclusive and support the local community and culture etc. this is a very funny way of showing it. The building has not been costing the taxpayer and will not be generating any revenue for the city for the forseeable future. Buildings of this importance and value are eligible for grants to help towards restoration and conservation so it would still not cost the council. The council are supposed to represent the people of the city and administer its assets for the benefit of its residents. I hope this makes things a little clearer to you. I originally had respect for the brewery but objected to the council denying the building to the community. My lack of respect and support for the brewery's business is a result of their own underhand behaviour.
Why do you assume I am part if the brewery? I am not just like you it us my own opinion it just so happens to that I think it is a very good idea.

I am a lover of history, art (art history degree), food and fine ale. This is a perfect plan in my eyes.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]SteveinTotton[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84, you appear very ignorant to the plans for this new venture. You constantly call it a pub and because of that you say it will limit access for people to enjoy the building. The fact that it will also be a brewery, restaurant and tourist information centre should make it very accessible. I assume children will be allowed in as families will be able to eat, people who do not drink alcohol can have coffee, tea etc. There is more public access in this format, how many average people will go visit it as an arts centre, very little I can imagine. This business will help keep the building going for many more years and save the tax payer.[/p][/quote]I'm not getting into arguments with people as the point in my posts are that there are two sides to every story and those objecting to the city losing the building have all been lumped together as one mass "art objection". My objections are my own, just as the others belong to other individuals, I am not part of any art group but I object to the city losing a proven successful community space, a nationally significant building and it being handed over to a pub. A pub is a business and is naturally driven by profits but due to how special and important the Wool House is, it should have been used in some community capacity so it is open to the widest possible audience. I assume you're from the brewery too as you've reiterated what seems to be a sore point to the brewery – calling it a pub. You may not like it called a pub as you want to stand out from all the others in the city but the brewery intend to sell alcohol, some of which they brew themselves and sell food to go along with it. This in the broadest sense of the term, is a pub. All pubs in the city operate in the same way. I originally had full respect for the brewery's concept and although I felt all along that the choice of building was wrong, I exercised my right to objection to the council's decision to allow a commercial venture in the building and not an objection to the brewery itself. But, after seeing the campaign of hate and insults from the brewery, it's supporters and even Ian Knight the architect of the design, it's left me with the opinion that they're highly unprofessional, underhand and were never open to any form of compromise. They took all objections personally and attacked the individual for exercising their right. Because of this behaviour, I personally wouldn't want any dealings with the pub in any shape or form nor do I have any respect or support for them if this is how they operate. For a business that is has said they're inclusive and support the local community and culture etc. this is a very funny way of showing it. The building has not been costing the taxpayer and will not be generating any revenue for the city for the forseeable future. Buildings of this importance and value are eligible for grants to help towards restoration and conservation so it would still not cost the council. The council are supposed to represent the people of the city and administer its assets for the benefit of its residents. I hope this makes things a little clearer to you. I originally had respect for the brewery but objected to the council denying the building to the community. My lack of respect and support for the brewery's business is a result of their own underhand behaviour.[/p][/quote]Why do you assume I am part if the brewery? I am not just like you it us my own opinion it just so happens to that I think it is a very good idea. I am a lover of history, art (art history degree), food and fine ale. This is a perfect plan in my eyes. SteveinTotton
  • Score: -2

4:43pm Wed 23 Apr 14

apn102 says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others.

If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants.

No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.
You're missing the point.

As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications.

Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible.

On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much.

My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.
As far as I am aware the group were paying little or no rent to the council for the building. They also would not be paying business rates which the platform will have to. So actually I think the council will be a lot better off.

There is also the fact that the dancing man will be making considerable repairs and maintaining the building which would not have previously been possible. In fact they are securing the future of this historic building.

All of this is personal opinion but the idea of the city loosing a historic building is ridiculous people will still be able to go there and use it. It will also be a tourist information point so you don't even need to go in and buy anything to go in and enjoy/see the space. If anything more people will use the space than ever and I think community spaces can also can put some people off from attending or going into those spaces.

If so many people wanted to use it as a community space (of which I am sure there are a lot) why have they not got themselves organised and put a proposal forward that showed how it could be done. if you can set up and discuss in a facebook group why not actually go one step further and do something positive. If you want to "save" a space from what you see is wrong don't just complain about it be proactive and give the council an alternative. If there were only two tenders I know which I would rather have. If there had been another proposal on the table with more of a community/arts side to it, I would be saying something different.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others. If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants. No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications. Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible. On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much. My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.[/p][/quote]As far as I am aware the group were paying little or no rent to the council for the building. They also would not be paying business rates which the platform will have to. So actually I think the council will be a lot better off. There is also the fact that the dancing man will be making considerable repairs and maintaining the building which would not have previously been possible. In fact they are securing the future of this historic building. All of this is personal opinion but the idea of the city loosing a historic building is ridiculous people will still be able to go there and use it. It will also be a tourist information point so you don't even need to go in and buy anything to go in and enjoy/see the space. If anything more people will use the space than ever and I think community spaces can also can put some people off from attending or going into those spaces. If so many people wanted to use it as a community space (of which I am sure there are a lot) why have they not got themselves organised and put a proposal forward that showed how it could be done. if you can set up and discuss in a facebook group why not actually go one step further and do something positive. If you want to "save" a space from what you see is wrong don't just complain about it be proactive and give the council an alternative. If there were only two tenders I know which I would rather have. If there had been another proposal on the table with more of a community/arts side to it, I would be saying something different. apn102
  • Score: -5

5:15pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

apn102 wrote:
sotonboy84 wrote:
Zootopian wrote:
The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others.

If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants.

No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.
You're missing the point.

As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications.

Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible.

On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much.

My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.
As far as I am aware the group were paying little or no rent to the council for the building. They also would not be paying business rates which the platform will have to. So actually I think the council will be a lot better off.

There is also the fact that the dancing man will be making considerable repairs and maintaining the building which would not have previously been possible. In fact they are securing the future of this historic building.

All of this is personal opinion but the idea of the city loosing a historic building is ridiculous people will still be able to go there and use it. It will also be a tourist information point so you don't even need to go in and buy anything to go in and enjoy/see the space. If anything more people will use the space than ever and I think community spaces can also can put some people off from attending or going into those spaces.

If so many people wanted to use it as a community space (of which I am sure there are a lot) why have they not got themselves organised and put a proposal forward that showed how it could be done. if you can set up and discuss in a facebook group why not actually go one step further and do something positive. If you want to "save" a space from what you see is wrong don't just complain about it be proactive and give the council an alternative. If there were only two tenders I know which I would rather have. If there had been another proposal on the table with more of a community/arts side to it, I would be saying something different.
I see you points and your comment appears to be the only one with sensible and constructive views. I'm not under the illusion that anybody that doesn't agree with me is wrong but as you'll see above, a large majority of people just attacked my posts rather than discussing.

Your point about repairs is very valid and as I'm personally keen for important buildings in the city to be preserved, this will be welcomed. Due to the buildings importance it would be eligible for grants and funding for repairs and restoration so either way, grants or from the brewery, they wouldn't cost the council anything.

Regarding your point about a proposal for a community space – the council were intent from the beginning to wash their hands of all responsibility of the building and were advertising for a commercial lease. The first attempt was unsuccessful and somewhere before or during the second attempt, Elements Art used the building. As the success of this grew, the council had already received proposals from the brewery and a restaurant and it was too late for a community group to put a proposal forward.

The purpose of the Facebook group was not to moan as moaning doesn't create results. It was a chance for people to discuss their ideas openly and this is how I became aware of others views. Not everybody in the group supported the Wool House being used as a community space, some were indifferent or in support of the brewery but everybody respected each other's views. The group was kept open so nobody felt excluded and all views were open for all to read and it was this that fuelled resentment between certain individuals. I'm not dwelling on it anymore but there were a few people from the brewery who later joined, including the architect of the project who passed many insults and belittled individual's comments when they could have just left them alone. This saddened me as not only were the council intent of passing the building to commercial use, it was being passed to a business that acted like this.

Anyway, I'm an ordinary city resident who does not agree with the councils handling of culture in this city. The council knew what they wanted and everything else seemed to be a tick box exercise. Councillors tweeting before applications were submitted and even Councillor Jacqui Rayment commenting "Well done, common sense prevailed" are hardly what I would expect from council representatives whatever the outcome of an application.
[quote][p][bold]apn102[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Zootopian[/bold] wrote: The arts group had their chance to take over the building permanently. Instead they chose to moan about the plans of others. If they were that serious, they would have tendered for the building, like Dancing Man did and the Indian restaurant who also tried to get it - they were the only two applicants. No use **** and downvoting comments they don't like now when they weren't prepared/able to actually seize the moment and try and take the building over permanently rather than surviving on the goodwill of a broke council.[/p][/quote]You're missing the point. As I said in my previous post, I don't believe the arts group that were using the Wool House previously have aired their opinion at all. All objections came from a number of city residents and resident associations etc. and have collectively been lumped together as an 'arts objection' by the brewery, council and DE. They're all independent and all members of the public have a right to object to planning applications. Objections ranged from keeping it as an arts venue to my opinion which was keeping it open as a community space which makes it most inclusive as possible. On the subject of funding. The Maritime Museum had free entry so the running of the museum fell to the council. Once this museum closed and the Sea City museum opened, entry is charged for which presumably covers running costs and profits to the council. The council are therefore in a better financial position than they were. My opinion is that the council should be promoting culture and community involvement in a city that lacks so much. My understanding too that Elements Arts use of the building was run not for profit and at no cost to the council. The brewery too have agreed a long rent-free period so they are paying no more or no less to council funds than the previous arts group were.[/p][/quote]As far as I am aware the group were paying little or no rent to the council for the building. They also would not be paying business rates which the platform will have to. So actually I think the council will be a lot better off. There is also the fact that the dancing man will be making considerable repairs and maintaining the building which would not have previously been possible. In fact they are securing the future of this historic building. All of this is personal opinion but the idea of the city loosing a historic building is ridiculous people will still be able to go there and use it. It will also be a tourist information point so you don't even need to go in and buy anything to go in and enjoy/see the space. If anything more people will use the space than ever and I think community spaces can also can put some people off from attending or going into those spaces. If so many people wanted to use it as a community space (of which I am sure there are a lot) why have they not got themselves organised and put a proposal forward that showed how it could be done. if you can set up and discuss in a facebook group why not actually go one step further and do something positive. If you want to "save" a space from what you see is wrong don't just complain about it be proactive and give the council an alternative. If there were only two tenders I know which I would rather have. If there had been another proposal on the table with more of a community/arts side to it, I would be saying something different.[/p][/quote]I see you points and your comment appears to be the only one with sensible and constructive views. I'm not under the illusion that anybody that doesn't agree with me is wrong but as you'll see above, a large majority of people just attacked my posts rather than discussing. Your point about repairs is very valid and as I'm personally keen for important buildings in the city to be preserved, this will be welcomed. Due to the buildings importance it would be eligible for grants and funding for repairs and restoration so either way, grants or from the brewery, they wouldn't cost the council anything. Regarding your point about a proposal for a community space – the council were intent from the beginning to wash their hands of all responsibility of the building and were advertising for a commercial lease. The first attempt was unsuccessful and somewhere before or during the second attempt, Elements Art used the building. As the success of this grew, the council had already received proposals from the brewery and a restaurant and it was too late for a community group to put a proposal forward. The purpose of the Facebook group was not to moan as moaning doesn't create results. It was a chance for people to discuss their ideas openly and this is how I became aware of others views. Not everybody in the group supported the Wool House being used as a community space, some were indifferent or in support of the brewery but everybody respected each other's views. The group was kept open so nobody felt excluded and all views were open for all to read and it was this that fuelled resentment between certain individuals. I'm not dwelling on it anymore but there were a few people from the brewery who later joined, including the architect of the project who passed many insults and belittled individual's comments when they could have just left them alone. This saddened me as not only were the council intent of passing the building to commercial use, it was being passed to a business that acted like this. Anyway, I'm an ordinary city resident who does not agree with the councils handling of culture in this city. The council knew what they wanted and everything else seemed to be a tick box exercise. Councillors tweeting before applications were submitted and even Councillor Jacqui Rayment commenting "Well done, common sense prevailed" are hardly what I would expect from council representatives whatever the outcome of an application. sotonboy84
  • Score: 5

7:09pm Wed 23 Apr 14

4abettersouthampton says...

Would not it be better to let people make there own clothes in an interactive experience kind of way and keep it for what it is
Would not it be better to let people make there own clothes in an interactive experience kind of way and keep it for what it is 4abettersouthampton
  • Score: -1

8:21pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

Just a few final points I'd thought I'd share, which should answer a few questions raised today...

Elements Arts had well over 10,000 visitors during the short time they were open - locals and tourists and day visitors alike.

At the planning meeting yesterday one of the Town Quay Park representatives spoke to say that Friends of Town Quay Park comments had not been taken on board ie the opinions of 114 people were not taken into account - and not counted in the number of objections.
Just a few final points I'd thought I'd share, which should answer a few questions raised today... Elements Arts had well over 10,000 visitors during the short time they were open - locals and tourists and day visitors alike. At the planning meeting yesterday one of the Town Quay Park representatives spoke to say that Friends of Town Quay Park comments had not been taken on board ie the opinions of 114 people were not taken into account - and not counted in the number of objections. sotonboy84
  • Score: 7

8:22pm Wed 23 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
Just a few final points I'd thought I'd share, which should answer a few questions raised today...

Elements Arts had well over 10,000 visitors during the short time they were open - locals and tourists and day visitors alike.

At the planning meeting yesterday one of the Town Quay Park representatives spoke to say that Friends of Town Quay Park comments had not been taken on board ie the opinions of 114 people were not taken into account - and not counted in the number of objections.
And... Full commercial rates and utilities were paid for the whole time Elements Arts were in the building.
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: Just a few final points I'd thought I'd share, which should answer a few questions raised today... Elements Arts had well over 10,000 visitors during the short time they were open - locals and tourists and day visitors alike. At the planning meeting yesterday one of the Town Quay Park representatives spoke to say that Friends of Town Quay Park comments had not been taken on board ie the opinions of 114 people were not taken into account - and not counted in the number of objections.[/p][/quote]And... Full commercial rates and utilities were paid for the whole time Elements Arts were in the building. sotonboy84
  • Score: 10

9:16pm Wed 23 Apr 14

cubzah111 says...

Not Southy wrote:
Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink!
Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
Please tell me, what exhibits were offensive...? Was it one of the boats? The homemade beads and necklaces? Maybe the pots.....???
I went to every exhibition - did you even go to any of them? You do realise by your comment you've offended probably most of the artists in southampton because the arts group were organising not for themselves but to promote local artists' and crafts people.
[quote][p][bold]Not Southy[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea![/p][/quote]Please tell me, what exhibits were offensive...? Was it one of the boats? The homemade beads and necklaces? Maybe the pots.....??? I went to every exhibition - did you even go to any of them? You do realise by your comment you've offended probably most of the artists in southampton because the arts group were organising not for themselves but to promote local artists' and crafts people. cubzah111
  • Score: 10

9:40pm Wed 23 Apr 14

AngryAleMan says...

"OOOH, something new and interesting! Let's get angry about it! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!"
"OOOH, something new and interesting! Let's get angry about it! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!" AngryAleMan
  • Score: -5

11:43pm Wed 23 Apr 14

tommmmy555 says...

Blah blah blah blah blah blah

Moan moan moan moan

Useless old commercial building has been turned into something useful that will serve the community and provide more taxes for the city. How that is not a good thing I can not see.

Grow up. Get a life. Stop attacking other people who are trying to male a living.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah Moan moan moan moan Useless old commercial building has been turned into something useful that will serve the community and provide more taxes for the city. How that is not a good thing I can not see. Grow up. Get a life. Stop attacking other people who are trying to male a living. tommmmy555
  • Score: -10

11:43pm Wed 23 Apr 14

tommmmy555 says...

Bah.

'Make a living'
Bah. 'Make a living' tommmmy555
  • Score: -7

10:28am Thu 24 Apr 14

dunque says...

Surely this not the first brew house in modern times - what about the Frog & Frigate?
Surely this not the first brew house in modern times - what about the Frog & Frigate? dunque
  • Score: 7

10:36am Thu 24 Apr 14

Jesus_02 says...

As someone that has a deep passion for both art and beer (having studied both in great detail).

I hope sotonboy84 moves on with his life and he and his friends open another pop up gallery space. I am sure that there will be a huge number of well intentioned philanthropists climiming over each other to give an opertunity to such a possative easy to deal with group of people.
As someone that has a deep passion for both art and beer (having studied both in great detail). I hope sotonboy84 moves on with his life and he and his friends open another pop up gallery space. I am sure that there will be a huge number of well intentioned philanthropists climiming over each other to give an opertunity to such a possative easy to deal with group of people. Jesus_02
  • Score: -3

11:03am Thu 24 Apr 14

cubzah111 says...

Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton cubzah111
  • Score: 5

11:30am Thu 24 Apr 14

Jesus_02 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
The Works
The Gadget Shop
John Lewis
Debenhams
TXMax

The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub...

BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton[/p][/quote]The Works The Gadget Shop John Lewis Debenhams TXMax The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub... BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable Jesus_02
  • Score: -9

11:31am Thu 24 Apr 14

Jesus_02 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
The Works
The Gadget Shop
John Lewis
Debenhams
TXMax

The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub...

BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton[/p][/quote]The Works The Gadget Shop John Lewis Debenhams TXMax The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub... BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable Jesus_02
  • Score: -6

12:00pm Thu 24 Apr 14

Jesus_02 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
Not Southy wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea!
Please tell me, what exhibits were offensive...? Was it one of the boats? The homemade beads and necklaces? Maybe the pots.....??? I went to every exhibition - did you even go to any of them? You do realise by your comment you've offended probably most of the artists in southampton because the arts group were organising not for themselves but to promote local artists' and crafts people.
Im not offended
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not Southy[/bold] wrote: Sotonboy84 is totally ignorant also by constantly claiming the Brewhouse will result in the building being CLOSED to the public. I understand the new guys are actively inviting the public to visit. For the first time those of us unable to reach the first floor will see it 7 days a week - and have accessible facilities. The museum exhibits filled the walls & spaces but from the image they had in the application - it looks now opened up visually. The only people who will not enter now will be those who have religious objection to alcohol being present. No surprise though - the previous arts group also served alcohol - and had images on display that many (inc those with issues) would fine offensive. Face it Sotonboy84 - you do not speak on behalf of anybody and need to shut up. Oh - and incidentally - before you again look to argue I must be either an alcoholic or staff at Platform... I don't even drink! Roll on August when I can take my visiting friends to the Wool House - and I might even buy a cup of tea![/p][/quote]Please tell me, what exhibits were offensive...? Was it one of the boats? The homemade beads and necklaces? Maybe the pots.....??? I went to every exhibition - did you even go to any of them? You do realise by your comment you've offended probably most of the artists in southampton because the arts group were organising not for themselves but to promote local artists' and crafts people.[/p][/quote]Im not offended Jesus_02
  • Score: -7

2:19pm Thu 24 Apr 14

cubzah111 says...

Jesus_02 wrote:
cubzah111 wrote:
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
The Works
The Gadget Shop
John Lewis
Debenhams
TXMax

The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub...

BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable
It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town.
Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology.
[quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton[/p][/quote]The Works The Gadget Shop John Lewis Debenhams TXMax The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub... BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable[/p][/quote]It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town. Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology. cubzah111
  • Score: 8

5:28pm Thu 24 Apr 14

cubzah111 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
cubzah111 wrote:
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
The Works
The Gadget Shop
John Lewis
Debenhams
TXMax

The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub...

BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable
It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town.
Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology.
Anyway the scandalous thing here is that a culturally and historical significant building that belongs to the people of the city has been leased and given into private hands and will be used to generate private profit, rather than being used as a 'not for profit' community space. And 'not for profit' does not mean that something isn't viable financially, or that it is a drain on the city council's purse....
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton[/p][/quote]The Works The Gadget Shop John Lewis Debenhams TXMax The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub... BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable[/p][/quote]It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town. Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology.[/p][/quote]Anyway the scandalous thing here is that a culturally and historical significant building that belongs to the people of the city has been leased and given into private hands and will be used to generate private profit, rather than being used as a 'not for profit' community space. And 'not for profit' does not mean that something isn't viable financially, or that it is a drain on the city council's purse.... cubzah111
  • Score: 5

7:07pm Thu 24 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
cubzah111 wrote:
Jesus_02 wrote:
cubzah111 wrote:
Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton
The Works
The Gadget Shop
John Lewis
Debenhams
TXMax

The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub...

BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable
It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town.
Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology.
Anyway the scandalous thing here is that a culturally and historical significant building that belongs to the people of the city has been leased and given into private hands and will be used to generate private profit, rather than being used as a 'not for profit' community space. And 'not for profit' does not mean that something isn't viable financially, or that it is a drain on the city council's purse....
Well said. Which is the complete opposite to a profit driven pub.
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jesus_02[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: Only seriously deluded people would expect an online poll in a local newspaper to represent the opinions of anyone but those who seriously believe it necessary to try to prove to the relatively few people that may actually bother to read the echo online, that their proposal is seriously supported. Not only is the poll very questionable,( if, as people on here have indicated, it is able to be manipulated - of which I have no doubt) , but also the percentages always seem strangely similar no matter which article the poll is about and don’t really mean anything – 10 people could vote and you’d still get a percentage…hardly a sign of overwhelming support. And what is the point of the vote anyway, who is it for, what will it achieve? It’s just a bit of fun – not something to take seriously. The fact is, that if you look at pretty much any comments about other Southampton developments, or the recent article about Southampton being the fourth worst town in the country, the number of comments that call for there to be more to do in the city, that call for more community and cultural spaces and despair at the fact that Southampton seems only to be able to promote drinking , gambling, lap dancing and eating establishments, is staggering and depressing. Those who say there are already very many community arts spaces to choose from, I defy you to list them…I can, just off the top of my head though, list at least 10 pubs, restaurants and bars within 5 minutes of this proposed development. Good luck to those who want to add yet some more to this uninspiring mix, and let’s see how you fare when the other grand developments , both West Quay 2 and Mayflower Park, come into being, bringing, as far as one can see, yet more bars, pubs, restaurants, lap dancing clubs and casinos. Welcome to Southampton[/p][/quote]The Works The Gadget Shop John Lewis Debenhams TXMax The list is endless...They all sell pictures right? So they must be Comunity Art Spaces in the same way that a micro brewery is really just a pub... BTW.. A-Space, Online Gallery and the Art House cafe all provide a good template if you want to set something up thats sustainable[/p][/quote]It wasn’t just a gallery and craft shop – a gallery is not necessarily a community hub. There were theatre, music, dance events, there were workshops and talks as well as school visits etc etc etc.. And you mention three local arts organisations/spaces that are all different in their own way - as was the arts space at the Wool House. But three, seriously, is that all you can come up with? And they aren't even anywhere near that part of town. Even the brewery people and supporters have called the development a pub, so don't understand your personal insistence on what you see as the correct terminology.[/p][/quote]Anyway the scandalous thing here is that a culturally and historical significant building that belongs to the people of the city has been leased and given into private hands and will be used to generate private profit, rather than being used as a 'not for profit' community space. And 'not for profit' does not mean that something isn't viable financially, or that it is a drain on the city council's purse....[/p][/quote]Well said. Which is the complete opposite to a profit driven pub. sotonboy84
  • Score: 5

8:15pm Thu 24 Apr 14

HenryMcUK says...

Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.
Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available. HenryMcUK
  • Score: -4

11:37am Fri 25 Apr 14

cubzah111 says...

HenryMcUK wrote:
Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.
If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally
[quote][p][bold]HenryMcUK[/bold] wrote: Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.[/p][/quote]If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally cubzah111
  • Score: 4

12:26pm Fri 25 Apr 14

sotonboy84 says...

cubzah111 wrote:
HenryMcUK wrote:
Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.
If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally
Elements Arts was completely self-funding, they paid full rates and utilities in their short time in the Wool House so did not cost the council a penny. The pub has a long rent free period so the council will not be receiving any more money from them than from Elements Arts.

The Arts Complex is a provate development of apartments and cafes and the £22m contribution for the public space was raised from the support from Arts Council England, Southampton City Council, SEEDA and grants. These funds are ring fenced so the Arts Complex is guaranteed.

As Elements Arts was self funding and not for profit, all profits are invested straight back into the group and therefore the community that they represent. The council had a clear goal and that was to lease the city building commercially and have no regard to providing for the people of the city.

The pub is profit driven and their profits come before any beenfit to the community. They're having a tourist information point in the pub - so what. This will be a map of all the other pubs and flats in the area. This isn't to benefit the community, its a clear business decision to attract tourists into the building in the hope they will spend money. Again, a profit driven pub.
[quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HenryMcUK[/bold] wrote: Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.[/p][/quote]If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally[/p][/quote]Elements Arts was completely self-funding, they paid full rates and utilities in their short time in the Wool House so did not cost the council a penny. The pub has a long rent free period so the council will not be receiving any more money from them than from Elements Arts. The Arts Complex is a provate development of apartments and cafes and the £22m contribution for the public space was raised from the support from Arts Council England, Southampton City Council, SEEDA and grants. These funds are ring fenced so the Arts Complex is guaranteed. As Elements Arts was self funding and not for profit, all profits are invested straight back into the group and therefore the community that they represent. The council had a clear goal and that was to lease the city building commercially and have no regard to providing for the people of the city. The pub is profit driven and their profits come before any beenfit to the community. They're having a tourist information point in the pub - so what. This will be a map of all the other pubs and flats in the area. This isn't to benefit the community, its a clear business decision to attract tourists into the building in the hope they will spend money. Again, a profit driven pub. sotonboy84
  • Score: 6

4:01pm Fri 25 Apr 14

Eco-art says...

sotonboy84 wrote:
cubzah111 wrote:
HenryMcUK wrote:
Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.
If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally
Elements Arts was completely self-funding, they paid full rates and utilities in their short time in the Wool House so did not cost the council a penny. The pub has a long rent free period so the council will not be receiving any more money from them than from Elements Arts.

The Arts Complex is a provate development of apartments and cafes and the £22m contribution for the public space was raised from the support from Arts Council England, Southampton City Council, SEEDA and grants. These funds are ring fenced so the Arts Complex is guaranteed.

As Elements Arts was self funding and not for profit, all profits are invested straight back into the group and therefore the community that they represent. The council had a clear goal and that was to lease the city building commercially and have no regard to providing for the people of the city.

The pub is profit driven and their profits come before any beenfit to the community. They're having a tourist information point in the pub - so what. This will be a map of all the other pubs and flats in the area. This isn't to benefit the community, its a clear business decision to attract tourists into the building in the hope they will spend money. Again, a profit driven pub.
Aw, what's that noise? Oh, it's the world's smallest violin!
[quote][p][bold]sotonboy84[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cubzah111[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HenryMcUK[/bold] wrote: Good for the platform tavern. I noticed that the moaners haven't come up with how a community arts space would be funded. Considering the council is investing in an art quarter with community arts space a mile up the road I doubt there would be any funding from the council or lottery available.[/p][/quote]If you had actually read the previous comments, you would see how this is possible The arts 'quarter' is meant to contain a large arts centre which has been overdue for the last 10 or more years and isn't due to be finished till 2016 -if nothing else goes wrong. And anyway, it is not the same thing as arts space driven by local grass roots organisations and individuals. Maybe you've never left Southampton, for the likes of Brighton, or Bristol (also Bournemouth or Portsmouth) ,or any number of places where there is more than one arts space for the whole of a large city - places which people actually go out of their way to visit, and thereby contribute to the local economy, precisely because there is more going on culturally[/p][/quote]Elements Arts was completely self-funding, they paid full rates and utilities in their short time in the Wool House so did not cost the council a penny. The pub has a long rent free period so the council will not be receiving any more money from them than from Elements Arts. The Arts Complex is a provate development of apartments and cafes and the £22m contribution for the public space was raised from the support from Arts Council England, Southampton City Council, SEEDA and grants. These funds are ring fenced so the Arts Complex is guaranteed. As Elements Arts was self funding and not for profit, all profits are invested straight back into the group and therefore the community that they represent. The council had a clear goal and that was to lease the city building commercially and have no regard to providing for the people of the city. The pub is profit driven and their profits come before any beenfit to the community. They're having a tourist information point in the pub - so what. This will be a map of all the other pubs and flats in the area. This isn't to benefit the community, its a clear business decision to attract tourists into the building in the hope they will spend money. Again, a profit driven pub.[/p][/quote]Aw, what's that noise? Oh, it's the world's smallest violin! Eco-art
  • Score: -5

5:55pm Fri 25 Apr 14

amooshka says...

Superb news! Couldn't have hoped for a better outcome for what will be a welcoming and lively use of the building. Such a shame that the campaign opposing it has brought so much negativity to the debate and have been unable to enter into open discussion regarding their concerns.
Superb news! Couldn't have hoped for a better outcome for what will be a welcoming and lively use of the building. Such a shame that the campaign opposing it has brought so much negativity to the debate and have been unable to enter into open discussion regarding their concerns. amooshka
  • Score: -2

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